What’s the hidden reality behind entrepreneurship when your company faces a merger or acquisition? Beyond the headlines and the excitement of a potential exit, there’s a deeply human side to these transitions—one filled with change, uncertainty, and the need for strong leadership and cultural awareness. In this episode, Marcia Dawood sits down with Jennifer Fondrevay, a former corporate executive turned M&A expert. Having lived through three multi-billion-dollar deals and authored a book on the subject, Jennifer Fondrevay brings a rare perspective focused not just on the transaction, but on the “people piece” that determines true transformation and sustainable success. Together, they explore the most common pitfalls and opportunities in M&A, from the grief staff can experience to the critical role of humility, communication, and early cultural integration. Packed with actionable advice for leaders, founders, and angel investors, this conversation is a must-listen for anyone preparing for, or curious about, what really makes an M&A deal work.
What’s the hidden reality behind entrepreneurship when your company faces a merger or acquisition? Beyond the headlines and the excitement of a potential exit, there’s a deeply human side to these transitions—one filled with change, uncertainty, and the need for strong leadership and cultural awareness.
In this episode, Marcia Dawood sits down with Jennifer Fondrevay, a former corporate executive turned M&A expert. Having lived through three multi-billion-dollar deals and authored a book on the subject, Jennifer Fondrevay brings a rare perspective focused not just on the transaction, but on the “people piece” that determines true transformation and sustainable success.
Together, they explore the most common pitfalls and opportunities in M&A, from the grief staff can experience to the critical role of humility, communication, and early cultural integration. Packed with actionable advice for leaders, founders, and angel investors, this conversation is a must-listen for anyone preparing for, or curious about, what really makes an M&A deal work.
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Marcia Dawood [00:00:02 - 00:00:05]:
Well, Jennifer, welcome to the Angel Next Door podcast.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:00:06 - 00:00:07]:
Thank you for having me.
Marcia Dawood [00:00:07 - 00:00:40]:
Oh, thank you for being here. I'm excited to talk to you today. You have such a wealth of knowledge about mergers and acquisition activity, which as angel investors, we are so interested just to hear that there's any mergers and acquisitions activity out there, because we have been waiting and waiting for all kinds of exits, but it's very challenging, often about the integration, all the things that go into this. And I'm just so excited to hear about how you learned all this, how your background, all those types of things. So let's start out, tell our listeners a little bit about you and the work that you're doing.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:00:40 - 00:01:31]:
Yeah, I definitely have a circuitous path to mergers and acquisitions, for sure. Not. Not a straight line. So I come at it as someone who experienced three separate multi billion dollar merger and acquisition deals. As a corporate executive, I've been on all sides of the deal equation. So I've been acquired. I've been hired by a company who acquired another company to lead teams, and then I've also been acquired by private equity, which is its own unique event. And it's really as a result of those three career experiences that I decided to write a book, which, Marcia, at the beginning was just gonna be a survivor's guide, right? I was just gonna put it out there, get a publisher, put it out there, and continue to be a chief marketing officer.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:01:31 - 00:02:19]:
But I had too many CEOs who I interviewed for the book to contribute stories and lessons learned who just kept asking me, what are you doing besides the book? This. And it usually was followed with two comments. One, people aren't going to run to Barnes and Noble to buy your book because they're going to be too busy trying to hold onto their job and understand what the hell's going on. And two, a book won't be enough. You've really got to build a consultancy around this to guide leaders, whether C suite or frontline leaders, on how to address the challenges that you identified. Right. Because my focus is on not the transaction piece, but on the people piece. How do you really have a merger and acquisition that truly transforms a business? So that's why I am here now talking to you about mergers and acquisitions.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:02:19 - 00:02:31]:
My dad is equally shocked because my background's in advertising and marketing, and initially I was going to be ambassador to France. At least that was my goal. So the fact that I'm in M and A is equally a fun family. Fun family fact.
Marcia Dawood [00:02:32 - 00:02:45]:
So interesting. All right, so you were part of a company that got acquired, you were. So you've sat on all sides of the table. Tell us a little bit about some of the things that you learned, how this became like such a passion of yours.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:02:46 - 00:03:31]:
Well, it's interesting because I wasn't even necessarily sure I was going to write a book. The second acquisition, so the first one, naftech digital mapping company was acquired by Nokia. If you remember Nokia. Oh yes, it's wired Navtec, the digital mapping company for 9 billion in 2008. I won't bore you with the details of what happened, but you probably noticed that there's not that many Nokia phones around with maps in them. And for me that was. That's my origin story because I thought that acquisition had such great potential to really change the game and propel Nokia forward. There are a lot of variables that led to Nokia not succeeding.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:03:31 - 00:04:00]:
They partnered with Microsoft, then Microsoft acquired. That's a whole other side aspect of the business. But it opened my eyes to what were some of the challenges that occur in a merger or an acquisition that I thought with proper planning and intention and a strategy could be addressed. Such as culture. Right. Naftech was B2B. B2 business to business and Nokia was B2C. They were Finnish based.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:04:00 - 00:04:36]:
We had Chicago headquarters. Though I don't think that was a huge influencer. It certainly had an impact. And you know that that integration of Naftech into Nokia didn't happen for about 18 months. And actually I think that had an impact, a significant impact on our ability to really make a difference for Nokia. So again, hindsight's 20 20. The only reason I highlight those variables and what happened is I saw the same patterns in the next two acquisitions that I was part of. Right.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:04:36 - 00:05:34]:
The grief that people experience when their identity that's associated with their prior company starts to dissolve and they don't know what it's turning into. So recognizing that, the fact that equally I saw people change in times of change and uncertainty, when people are afraid of their future, you can see a different side of them. And so that's a lot of what I focus on in the book because it kept coming up in the interviews I did with CEOs, yeah, I would talk about these things and they would say no one talks about this, but it's so true. And we need to as leaders be not only prepared for it because it's going to happen, but have guidance on how to manage both the stages of grief, the changes in behavior. Someone who was your rock star becoming a former rock star, how do you deal with that. So that's really what drove me to do what I do now is that first acquisition and then seeing the same things happen over and over in the subsequent deals that I was part of.
Marcia Dawood [00:05:35 - 00:05:45]:
Interesting. So it's. If you have people that are legacy one company and other people who are legacy the other company, and how that they really do hold on to those identities.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:05:46 - 00:06:38]:
Absolutely, absolutely. And it's easy to say we're going to co create new best practices, but if you're entrenched in your ways of doing things, and truth be told, there's a lot of arrogance that happens in a merger and acquisition, you're both coming to this thinking we're the smartest and best in our area. And so a lot of the coaching and consulting that I do with CEOs is to understand that arrogance can actually undermine the success of the deal. It's coming to that partnership with respect for the other side, appreciating the value you both bring. If you have to start there to truly understand how are we going to have best practices that will serve the common mission that we now have, not preserve. This is how we've always done it. And that takes some time, as I'm sure you can appreciate from your own work.
Marcia Dawood [00:06:38 - 00:07:23]:
Yes. Well, I worked for an education company, a big education company for a long time. And we were basically built on acquisition. So we would acquire these different schools. And it turned out at one point we had 37 different versions of one program. And everybody was like, no, my program's the best. So trying to not just find what would be best for the students, of course, but find what would be best that people would adopt that they'd actually take ownership of all this. It was just there were so much from a cultural standpoint, all the things like what are some of the lessons that you try to teach when it comes to.
Marcia Dawood [00:07:25 - 00:07:39]:
Not necessarily even at the C suite level, but like, how do you help the people who are really down in the trenches, how do you help them to get that feeling back of I do working here, I do what I'm doing and I feel secure that I'm not going to lose my job tomorrow?
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:07:40 - 00:08:04]:
Well, there's a couple things and I actually, I want to use your example because it's a perfect example. Right. I'm confident the person who found, like, how is it that we ended up with 37 programs? And that's usually because no one has the. I won't say no one. That's not fair. That's the sweeping generalization. But people rarely have the courage in that moment because people are just trying to. They're worried about putting a target on their back.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:08:04 - 00:08:49]:
Right. They want to be seen as I'm aligned, I'm excited about this. I want to be part of the vision. And so one of the things that I encourage and promote with leadership is you have to create. Now the term is psychological safety but essentially you have to create an atmosphere where people feel comfortable to challenge and they aren't seen as someone who's not on board but challenging. Is this the right program? Is this the best application? Is this process really serving our end customer the best? That first step of creating that space in which people feel comfortable doing that. And first and foremost leaders have to role model that. They have to demonstrate and acknowledge when someone has challenged them.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:08:50 - 00:09:12]:
Be open to that. Answer the question and or address it, but address it in a way that has other people. Right. I say this in town halls all the time. Your opportunity to show how this is going to go moving forward is to take on those questions. Be open. When you don't know the answer, acknowledge that, but make sure that audience feels okay. But I'm going to be working on those answers.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:09:12 - 00:10:30]:
And by the way, I need you to continue this feedback loop. I need to keep hearing the questions. Were you seeing challenges in executing things that we need to be working on? And so it's a both and because leadership needs to create that space and those frontline leaders need to feel comfortable to do that. And the more you role model, the more you that the the better. And going back to your example, because I had a similar one with within naftech Nokia where both sides were entrenched in their go to market approach. And it was thankfully it was a junior manager who had the courage to speak up and said what's best for our customer though what really is the optimal experience for them? Because it's clearly it's not one or others. It's a combination of what we've both done and figuring out what version of that coming together will optimize the experience for our customer. And keeping that as your North Star, while to your point, can't be cost prohibitive, if it's going to be months in order to do it, then the opportunity is okay, how do we do this in phases? How do we make sure we're investing in this, looking back from what's best for the customer and optimizing so that we can get this done within a timeframe that's relevant.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:10:30 - 00:10:45]:
Right. Because if it's going to take us millions and it's not ready for two years that serves no one. So the combination of those, by keeping your customers the North Star and what their optimal experience is can help decide a lot of that argument.
Marcia Dawood [00:10:45 - 00:10:54]:
Why do you think in the example you were giving earlier, it took 18 months till there was like some level of integration between the two companies.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:10:55 - 00:11:19]:
Oh, and I'm going to be upfront. I'm a late convert. I thought that was the best thing at the beginning. I thought, great, leave us alone. We, you bought us 9 million for a reason. And I was not unique in that opinion. And what I now realize and frankly was actually doing, I wrote an article about it in Forbes. It was actually looking at the Skype integration, Microsoft's integration of Skype.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:11:19 - 00:12:19]:
And they closed down Skype. Microsoft Teams took off and a lot of it, after I did a lot of research, I realized it's because Skype stayed its own separate thing within Microsoft and teams just started to get the, the resources, the budget, et cetera. And so I realized in actually doing the research for that, the benefit of that integration happening faster, you get not only the synergies but, but the opportunity to really then focus on that common vision. And so for me, I will be upfront. I think a lot of it is just arrogance at the beginning because you think, well, you acquired us for 9 billion, clearly you think we have value, let us just keep doing what we were doing. But that keeps you from truly delivering on the mission and vision for why, whether it's a merger or an acquisition, why you became part of that other company. And that's truly to get those efficiencies. The integration plays a key role in doing that.
Marcia Dawood [00:12:20 - 00:12:29]:
Yeah. And then do you think it took like those 18 months actually from a cultural standpoint were a bit of a hindrance because people were wonder how much longer I'm gonna have a job.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:12:30 - 00:12:53]:
Oh, yeah. People say stay and it's I talk about this in the stages of grief section and I should qualify. I didn't come up with the stages of Grief. It's Elizabeth Kubler Ross. I adapted it for here's what that looks like in the context of a merger or an acquisition. Right. A lot of people stuck in denial and it takes you a while to get to acceptance, Right. Acceptance doesn't mean you're joyful and oh my gosh, this is great.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:12:53 - 00:13:53]:
It just means you accept that the change has happened. And so that 18 month timeframe for me, you had people transitioning but holding longer, I would say, on the bargaining stage of the stages, it starts in denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. In the bargaining stage, if you're there too long, you're still holding onto the old ways, embracing the new. You don't fully buy in yet. And that can delay again the business, the value creation aspect of why a merger or an acquisition is pursued in the first place, particularly when it's multi billion dollar deals. And for me, a lot of the lessons learned were post. Once I left and I did the three years of research and spoke and interviewed CEOs for my book, I realized things that even I did as a leader holding onto the old way of doing things that, that don't necessarily serve the future vision.
Marcia Dawood [00:13:53 - 00:13:56]:
Yeah, people don't like change very often.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:13:56 - 00:14:20]:
And that's why I focus on that so much. And I'm very open about it. It wasn't just my experience. That's why it was so helpful to talk to CEOs. Change. People resist change, but they can overcome it. What people hate more is uncertainty and mergers and acquisitions, just inherently, it's a lot of uncertainty because you've got a strategy that inevitably looks great on paper. That's why you pursued it.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:14:20 - 00:14:46]:
But when you begin to execute, you have variables out of your control, the biggest being human nature, people's reaction to the change, people's ability to adapt and pivot to the change. All of those variables are unpredictable. And that contributes to how well the deal does or doesn't. Which is why that's my focus is helping leaders not only anticipate that reality, but then how do you address it and mitigate that as much as possible?
Marcia Dawood [00:14:46 - 00:15:24]:
And what about with smaller companies? Like obviously as angel investors, we're talking to startup companies, they grow to a certain point, sometimes much bigger. But in a lot of cases, what we see is somewhere between a 50 million and maybe a $250 million acquisition. So it's smaller valuations, things like that. How when you have some people that are very important to the company because they have they're doing a job that is integral to the whole mission of the. How do you handle that when you're got a bigger company acquiring a smaller company and how do you keep that culture and actually do that integration a little better?
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:15:25 - 00:16:42]:
The ones that I've seen be most successful is when you bring that, that key talent as the term is under the hood, you bring them in and involve them as soon as you can. Right. Recognize the compliance, the regulation, the confidentiality. As you and I both know, there, there are ways that you can do that, whether it's bringing them under the Hood, helping them to feel part of that as soon as you, you can. That's where I have seen CEOs, founders, entrepreneurs be successful. Because where I see it go sideways is when that key talent feels blindsided that they weren't involved, that they see things that were either. The strategy is not executable because they're close enough to doing the work to know that will require more time, more resources, more budget than what we've got. So the sooner you can pull them into that discussion, not only do you have their buy in, but, but and their contribution to, okay, what is the right strategy, how is this going to look? But because they've bought in earlier, they can then help translate that to the organization once you move forward with the deal.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:16:42 - 00:17:14]:
And that to me is just such a critical piece that often gets missed because the focus is so much on let's just get the transaction done. I always pull leadership back to say, okay, but who's critical to making this possible? Egos aside, right. You tend to have CEOs that think, well, I'm absolutely critical. But when you pull back and say, okay, but let's talk about who all contributes to make this successful and what do we need to do to make sure not only that they're bought in, but they're helping to translate this vision for the rest of the organization, that's where I've seen success.
Marcia Dawood [00:17:15 - 00:17:53]:
Got it. So true partnership and the people that are either coming to the table, who are the leaders of the one company and then of course the ones who are buying. So where do you see M and A activity as the transaction is potentially happening? Where do you see where it falls apart? Where are the things that like we should be on the lookout for when it comes to, if we know that we're talking with a company and there are potential acquirers or there's an investment banker involved and they could potentially be acquired, what are the things that sometimes trip up the transaction?
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:17:54 - 00:19:42]:
I think, and this actually came through the interviews that I did with CEOs and it comes up a lot when I present to boards. It's not talking about the people piece sooner because so much is about and understandably value creation. You're looking at the efficiencies, the synergies, the financials. But if you aren't looking at how do all of those, how, what's, what makes all of those things possible? It's the people, what are the communications, where do we have cultural alignment and where might we have differences? And I think too often in the past there's the fear that, yeah, but culture is murky and how do we evaluate that? And we'll just deal with it once we get the deal done, but by not addressing that sooner. And this is in particular when I talk to boards talking about what is our strategy, how will we be smart about their culture aligning and integrating well with ours? Have we done an assessment? Do we really know beyond just the executive leadership team that next level down, how can we be smarter about that? And thankfully, fortunately, you have more AI platforms coming in that can help you do that. Cultural analysis to help you get some finer data points on where do we have alignment, where do we need to be? I don't want to say concern, but where do we have discrepancies or differences that we need to focus on and be smart about to prepare so that we don't lose time. So for me, the critical thing is having that discussion sooner before you've announced the deal so that you have a strategy in place. The other exercise that I do, Marcia, that I've seen be really powerful is it's a pre mortem.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:19:43 - 00:21:04]:
And you may have done a pre mortem in business, but a pre mortem in a merger and acquisition, essentially, the LOI is signed, you're walking down the aisle, you haven't yet exchanged rings. It's in that time period where you do it and you act as though the deal has failed. It's the senior leadership from both companies who come together smart. Act as though the deal has failed and you do almost a reverse swat. What are all the reasons why the deal failed? What do we need to be thinking about? And what's been so revealing about that type of exercise is one, there's ego is removed because no one's being accused of having messed up. You're now competing, and I've seen it, right? People compete to come up with the what are the reasons this will go wrong? And I've had so many CEOs say to me, that's as close as I'll ever get to having a crystal ball for where potentially this deal could go well and where we have some gaps, either gaps in knowledge or skillset, or we better be prepared with a solution. In one instance, one of the potential reasons for the failure was a competitor who they didn't think was going to have a product would launch XYZ product faster. And so as a result of bringing that up as an example, they thought, okay, wow, if that does happen, that would actually really undermine why we're doing this deal in the first place.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:21:04 - 00:21:24]:
So we need to be prepared for that and solution for it. So to me, it's doing as much upfront thinking intentionally and having a strategy around it so that when you. When the deal is announced and you're moving forward, you've already got plans in place for how to make the deal as successful as possible for that value creation.
Marcia Dawood [00:21:25 - 00:21:28]:
Yeah. Really thinking about the marriage, not just the wedding.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:21:28 - 00:21:34]:
Yes, absolutely. I use that analogy all the time. It helps people go, oh, because you.
Marcia Dawood [00:21:34 - 00:21:56]:
Don'T want to be having the divorce? Yeah, we don't want that. No. Okay. So I have been hearing, because I've been asking people, lawyers, friends, other angel investors, I'm like, what's going on in 2026? We thought. I thought, I'll just speak for myself. I thought at the beginning of 2025, we might start to see more M and a activity. But 2025 is.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:21:56 - 00:21:57]:
You weren't alone in that prediction.
Marcia Dawood [00:21:58 - 00:22:19]:
Yep. A little rocky for a couple of reasons. But now here we are, 2026, I have been hearing grumblings, and I have seen some small M and A activities personally happening within my portfolio. But tell us a little bit about what you're thinking. Please get out your crystal ball and let's see what could possibly happen in the future.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:22:20 - 00:22:50]:
So I've been hearing the same rumblings. I think the fact that the second half of 2025 started to see some mega deals happening is loosening up people's parrot paralysis, I would say, is the best way to say it. The reasons why you and I and a lot of other people thought that 2025 would be the breakout year is because that dry powder still exists. And I think it's gotta get deployed. And I think 2026 will be the year that starts to. To truly take hold.
Marcia Dawood [00:22:51 - 00:22:55]:
Do me a favor, explain that a little more. What you mean by that with the dry powder for our listeners.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:22:56 - 00:23:29]:
So private equity have billions of dollars in investor money to put against businesses and have held back in the past, I would say, almost two years, interest rates have been an issue. Certainly in 2025, the issue was more just the uncertainty, the economic uncertainty, political like, the whole list of everything that's been driving uncertainty. And so now, though, investors are looking for that capital to be deployed, to be invested in businesses and make money.
Marcia Dawood [00:23:29 - 00:23:30]:
Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:23:30 - 00:23:58]:
So you're starting to see, as you said, it's rumblings. But I think it's going to accelerate. And for me, that's. Obviously that's. I'm not saying that because I work in mergers and acquisitions. That's a good thing. But I think businesses frankly right now trying to survive on their own, there's huge upside when mergers and acquisitions, the opportunities and the efficiencies and the synergies are pursued to get that for business. That's a good thing.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:23:58 - 00:24:57]:
I don't want to distract that since a lot of my conversation is about here's where it goes wrong. I actually am a believer in the power of mergers and acquisitions. And if anything, I think one of my predictions for 2026 is M& A won't just be a growth strategy as it's been in the past, but it'll be almost a workforce strategy. Companies will be looking to acquire for talent and for tech, not just for market share and for financial reasons. We were aware of, I think a million quote according to Challenger, Gray and Christmas, the 1 million knowledge workers who've been laid off in tech and finance and whatnot, you've got a lot of companies that are trying to adjust and I think that's actually going to drive more mergers and acquisitions as they're looking for talent and tech as part of their workforce strategy. So I'd love to hear your thoughts. That's my one prediction in my little crystal ball. Who knows? We should talk at the end of this year to see.
Marcia Dawood [00:24:57 - 00:25:35]:
Yes. And see what happens. But. Well, a little bit about what we're seeing is if you just take an example, like a bigger health care company, they, in a lot of cases people think that these bigger companies, oh, they have so much money for R and D, they're just going to come up with their own innovations. But a lot of cases that isn't what's happening. So they need to find the technologies. And when we, I use word technologies, I don't just mean the best AI chip or whatever. I'm talking about all of the things, what's happening in women's health that can actually.
Marcia Dawood [00:25:35 - 00:26:37]:
What is, what's the most recent medical device that could help save lives for heart disease? I don't know. I'm just throwing out examples. I think in a lot of cases there's companies, they can't necessarily innovate 100% on their own. They need to pick up the ball where somebody has already started to roll it. So that's where we're starting to see some people who are saying, hey, I know that if I want to acquire a certain type of technology, then I need to start looking at who is already like way ahead of where, where I, where our company wants to be. And we need to see who's out there actually making these innovations. And in a lot of cases, it's super exciting to see what's been worked on, what's being worked on, how far and how much progress some of these companies has made. But to your point, if they don't get that influx of infrastructure, capital, a bigger company coming along, they could be left on the cutting room floor, which is not what we want.
Marcia Dawood [00:26:37 - 00:27:20]:
So it's almost. There's a timing to it, but there's also a match matching to make sure that the right company is getting with the right company. But in some cases, if we wait too long, which I've been nervous because we've really not seen a lot of M and a activity since 2021. So we're going on almost five years of no really significant M and A activity. So now what that basically is telling me that we have to get some of these companies into a position of stability and strength for them to be able to thrive and grow. Or we could miss out on a lot of the innovations that we really do need in the world. Yeah.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:27:20 - 00:27:53]:
And you know, I love that example in healthcare. We're seeing that routinely. And it's interesting because you reminded me of my naftech Nokia days. Right. Because so much of the success of that acquisition, when you're acquiring for people and tech and knowledge, you it's, it is attaching a new arm. It's an organ that you are now. So you have to be, how do we set up the body so that the organ, the transplant actually works as opposed to, oh, this is just gonna work perfectly. And I think about the naftech Nokia days and then lessons learned from that.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:27:54 - 00:29:16]:
Right. When you acquire a company for its technology and its way of doing things, it's optimizing to help them accelerate what they've been doing to do that even better at a grander scale with you. And that's where I see the issue. So it's why my, my second prediction, and I should have, I should warn your audience, I'm an optimist, so these are optimal, I'm hoping these happen predictions. But to me, responsible mergers and acquisitions will become a competitive advantage for those companies who actually deliver on it, that don't just announce to the market, here's how we're going to do it, but then don't do anything in line with what, what the communication is that they'll actually be held accountable for doing that, but they'll also strive, they will be incentivized to do it because they will see the benefits of A properly done integration of really taking that time, as our discussion has talked about, of taking that time upfront to not only understand the asset that they're acquiring or merging with, but optimizing for how do we truly make this work so that we and the company really can deliver on the promise of the valuation. And that for me is. Has great potential in 2026, as mergers and acquisitions accelerate, that doing it right companies will see that's a competitive advantage.
Marcia Dawood [00:29:16 - 00:29:40]:
I completely agree. And being on the advisory committee to the SEC, I've gotten to talk to our new newest SEC chairman, Paul Atkins, and he's all about making IPOs great again. And I do believe if we can start to see more IPO activity that just trickles down to all. More M and A activity and more activity in the entire marketplace to make these companies better.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:29:41 - 00:29:50]:
Yeah. And okay, so here's my last prediction. I've got three, and this one probably will sound the most Pollyannish. But I am. I'm a hopeful gal.
Marcia Dawood [00:29:50 - 00:29:51]:
Okay.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:29:51 - 00:30:04]:
I'm a glass half full kind of lady. You have a number of CEOs who are retiring or having shorter terms in their position, and a number of them are going to consultancies, becoming advisors, joining boards.
Marcia Dawood [00:30:04 - 00:30:05]:
Boards. Yeah.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:30:06 - 00:30:46]:
One thing consistently that came up when I was interviewing CEOs for my book was how often they would say, man, I wish I knew then what I know now. They would reveal they came to the deal with a lot of arrogance. That's why one of the. When someone says, if there's one piece of advice you would give around a merger and acquisition and how to approach it, what's that one piece of advice? Come to it with respect. When both sides come to the deal with respect for the other, and they role model that and they show it in every both what they say and they do, those are the deals that are successful. And that came from talking to CEOs who said, I came with a lot of arrogance. I wish I'd had more humility. That stuck with me.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:30:46 - 00:31:48]:
And my Hope is that CEOs who have gone through a lot, who are now taking on those advisory roles, whether in consulting or board positions, will bring that knowledge to the discussion to say, if we want this to succeed, we need to set the leadership up for success. We need them to be prepared, not just on the financials, but the leadership component of this. How do we do this integration correctly? One of the things I've been doing research on with a colleague is on the concept of integration debt. The compound interest of poorly made decisions lack of decision making or not recalibrating a bad decision, the debt that accumulates over time. And so my hope is through the research that I'm seeing on this more companies will realize those invisible costs aren't invisible. Just address them earlier, acknowledge that they can be challenges and address them. And so I'm hoping that more CEOs taking on those advisory roles will equally help more M and A to be successful.
Marcia Dawood [00:31:49 - 00:32:15]:
Yes, I love that. That would be great. Well Jennifer, thank you so much. Yes, we're going to manifest it. I love that. Thank you so much for being on the show today and for all of your wisdom and for all that you're doing in order to help bring this to light. Jeez, I remember not that long ago we didn't even talk about culture. So it's really nice to be seeing more people knowing that there's a human side and we should take care of that.
Jennifer Fondrevay [00:32:16 - 00:32:18]:
Thank you and thank you for having me on.